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#1
lower the price for legendary gem 2 billion is way too much compare to the money ppl actually have, even a billion is alot but it's more reasonable to stride for it.
[Image: Arcanine.full.51846.jpg]
#2
Yeah and what will happen to people like us who already got msl-s ?
#3
(2015-08-22, 06:37 AM)Atharvaa898 Wrote: Yeah and what will happen to people like us who already got msl-s ?

It has happened before, you can get a refund
[Image: 2i2mft.jpg]
What A Drag...
#4
(2015-08-22, 01:43 PM)Darkvoid Wrote:
(2015-08-22, 06:37 AM)Atharvaa898 Wrote: Yeah and what will happen to people like us who already got msl-s ?

It has happened before, you can get a refund
We get the gems back not the money 
#5
i agree if the legendary gem is at least 700 million gold or 600 million gold and for ultimant gem i perfer over 300 million gold or 250 million gold
#6
(2015-08-22, 06:20 PM)MikeDevil Wrote: i agree if the legendary gem is at least 700 million gold or 600 million gold and for ultimant gem i perfer over 300 million gold or 250 million gold

i disagree with mike 300m is too low for ultimate gem . and i think the price should just stay as it is.
#7
Mega gem: 25m
Perfect Gem: 100m

75m difference

Ultimate Gem: 500m
Legendary Gem: 2b

1.5b difference lol.. just a though..
#8
(2015-08-22, 03:28 PM)Atharvaa898 Wrote:
(2015-08-22, 01:43 PM)Darkvoid Wrote:
(2015-08-22, 06:37 AM)Atharvaa898 Wrote: Yeah and what will happen to people like us who already got msl-s ?

It has happened before, you can get a refund
We get the gems back not the money 

Just because u spent the current price doesn't mean that should blockade the game for progression to fit the general population of players. 2bil is way too much especially to evolve more than one pokemon. Plus to make quick money by selling shinnies most ppl don't want to buy them they rather trade for them cause they are also saving up money for their gem. So it just create a system where ppl don't want to buy nothing too pricey.
[Image: Arcanine.full.51846.jpg]
#9
(2015-08-22, 10:48 PM)currychicken Wrote:
(2015-08-22, 03:28 PM)Atharvaa898 Wrote:
(2015-08-22, 01:43 PM)Darkvoid Wrote:
(2015-08-22, 06:37 AM)Atharvaa898 Wrote: Yeah and what will happen to people like us who already got msl-s ?

It has happened before, you can get a refund
We get the gems back not the money 

Just because u spent the current price doesn't mean that should blockade the game for progression to fit the general population of players. 2bil is way too much especially to evolve more than one pokemon. Plus to make quick money by selling shinnies most ppl don't want to buy them they rather trade for them cause they are also saving up money for their gem. So it just create a system where ppl don't want to buy nothing too pricey.
Mega-shiny-legendaries are for experienced playe
rs only , you won't see a newbie owning one.
So if you feel you can't afford a msl then don't buy it and just stick with shinies.
And as for gaining money , you can get it in just 20 days.
If i have got that then any1 can.

Think of the pricing system this way :
25 X 4 = 100 
100 X 5 = 500 mil 
500 X 4 = 2000 mil
So ,  if you don't have problem with the perfect gem then you shouldn't bother about the legendary and ultimate gems.
#10
(2015-08-23, 04:03 AM)Atharvaa898 Wrote:
(2015-08-22, 10:48 PM)currychicken Wrote:
(2015-08-22, 03:28 PM)Atharvaa898 Wrote:
(2015-08-22, 01:43 PM)Darkvoid Wrote:
(2015-08-22, 06:37 AM)Atharvaa898 Wrote: Yeah and what will happen to people like us who already got msl-s ?

It has happened before, you can get a refund
We get the gems back not the money 

Just because u spent the current price doesn't mean that should blockade the game for progression to fit the general population of players. 2bil is way too much especially to evolve more than one pokemon. Plus to make quick money by selling shinnies most ppl don't want to buy them they rather trade for them cause they are also saving up money for their gem. So it just create a system where ppl don't want to buy nothing too pricey.
Mega-shiny-legendaries are for experienced playe
rs only , you won't see a newbie owning one.
So if you feel you can't afford a msl then don't buy it and just stick with shinies.
And as for gaining money , you can get it in just 20 days.
If i have got that then any1 can.

Think of the pricing system this way :
25 X 4 = 100 
100 X 5 = 500 mil 
500 X 4 = 2000 mil
So ,  if you don't have problem with the perfect gem then you shouldn't bother about the legendary and ultimate gems.

Did you just read what u wrote mega shiny legendaries are for experienced players...what experience do u need to caught a shiny legend and get money to evolve it lol. Only thing you have to do is grind days to make money and wish someone buys one of your shiny for quick money. You just don't want other players to get mega shiny easier than how you had it reason why you were talking about refunding if this went through, so don't be a kill joy and give your real reason of opposing this which is technically a lost in value to current mega shinies. Mega shiny legends will still be rare and hard to acquire if it drops to a billion since majority of players still don't even have that much. 
*To re-compensate they can give current owners of mega shiny that require the gem one or two gems to offset their lost if price gets adjusted*
p.s. perfect gem 100mil...leg gem 2bil "So ,  if you don't have problem with the perfect gem then you shouldn't bother about the legendary and ultimate gems." don't make sense one is acquirable in decent time the other is ridiculous especially with the increase in mega pokemon to get 2bil to get those in shiny form. Also if you can get it in 20 days other ppl can? So we suppose to make 100mil a day out of just battling gym leader and other npc since we all saving up for that pricey gem the market is going to be slow with ppl barely buying anything. Perfect reason to not change the price.
[Image: Arcanine.full.51846.jpg]
#11
(2015-08-22, 03:28 PM)Atharvaa898 Wrote:
(2015-08-22, 01:43 PM)Darkvoid Wrote:
(2015-08-22, 06:37 AM)Atharvaa898 Wrote: Yeah and what will happen to people like us who already got msl-s ?

It has happened before, you can get a refund
We get the gems back not the money 

I think if this were to happen, it'd be done this way, you currently payed 2b to get the gem, the price has then dropped to 1b, you get the 1b back then. It'd make more sense than just giving the gems back since there is a gem refund system now
[Image: 2i2mft.jpg]
What A Drag...
#12
(2015-08-23, 05:57 AM)currychicken Wrote:
(2015-08-23, 04:03 AM)Atharvaa898 Wrote:
(2015-08-22, 10:48 PM)currychicken Wrote:
(2015-08-22, 03:28 PM)Atharvaa898 Wrote:
(2015-08-22, 01:43 PM)Darkvoid Wrote: It has happened before, you can get a refund
We get the gems back not the money 

Just because u spent the current price doesn't mean that should blockade the game for progression to fit the general population of players. 2bil is way too much especially to evolve more than one pokemon. Plus to make quick money by selling shinnies most ppl don't want to buy them they rather trade for them cause they are also saving up money for their gem. So it just create a system where ppl don't want to buy nothing too pricey.
Mega-shiny-legendaries are for experienced playe
rs only , you won't see a newbie owning one.
So if you feel you can't afford a msl then don't buy it and just stick with shinies.
And as for gaining money , you can get it in just 20 days.
If i have got that then any1 can.

Think of the pricing system this way :
25 X 4 = 100 
100 X 5 = 500 mil 
500 X 4 = 2000 mil
So ,  if you don't have problem with the perfect gem then you shouldn't bother about the legendary and ultimate gems.

Did you just read what u wrote mega shiny legendaries are for experienced players...what experience do u need to caught a shiny legend and get money to evolve it lol. Only thing you have to do is grind days to make money and wish someone buys one of your shiny for quick money. You just don't want other players to get mega shiny easier than how you had it reason why you were talking about refunding if this went through, so don't be a kill joy and give your real reason of opposing this which is technically a lost in value to current mega shinies. Mega shiny legends will still be rare and hard to acquire if it drops to a billion since majority of players still don't even have that much. 
*To re-compensate they can give current owners of mega shiny that require the gem one or two gems to offset their lost if price gets adjusted*
p.s. perfect gem 100mil...leg gem 2bil "So ,  if you don't have problem with the perfect gem then you shouldn't bother about the legendary and ultimate gems." don't make sense one is acquirable in decent time the other is ridiculous especially with the increase in mega pokemon to get 2bil to get those in shiny form. Also if you can get it in 20 days other ppl can? So we suppose to make 100mil a day out of just battling gym leader and other npc since we all saving up for that pricey gem the market is going to be slow with ppl barely buying anything. Perfect reason to not change the price.

Look at your first sentence.
So you mean catching a shiny-legend and getting money requires no skills lol tell the name of at least one newbie who has caught a shiny-legend till now.

I don't have any problems if cef reduces price of gem to any other price and we get our money money back we are just concerned because if mega-shiny-legendaries are considered so op then they should be just as difficult to get and getting 100 mil should be no tough job since i got 400 mil in a single day , it is way too easy you just require some simple techniques.

And btw you cannot expect cef to change the entire gem system because of some people who are too lazy to get the money.

Anyways the ultimate decision is cef's and once he had said that he feels the prices are perfect so no use arguing about this issue anymore.
#13
(2015-08-23, 02:35 PM)Atharvaa898 Wrote:
(2015-08-23, 05:57 AM)currychicken Wrote:
(2015-08-23, 04:03 AM)Atharvaa898 Wrote:
(2015-08-22, 10:48 PM)currychicken Wrote:
(2015-08-22, 03:28 PM)Atharvaa898 Wrote: We get the gems back not the money 

Just because u spent the current price doesn't mean that should blockade the game for progression to fit the general population of players. 2bil is way too much especially to evolve more than one pokemon. Plus to make quick money by selling shinnies most ppl don't want to buy them they rather trade for them cause they are also saving up money for their gem. So it just create a system where ppl don't want to buy nothing too pricey.
Mega-shiny-legendaries are for experienced playe
rs only , you won't see a newbie owning one.
So if you feel you can't afford a msl then don't buy it and just stick with shinies.
And as for gaining money , you can get it in just 20 days.
If i have got that then any1 can.

Think of the pricing system this way :
25 X 4 = 100 
100 X 5 = 500 mil 
500 X 4 = 2000 mil
So ,  if you don't have problem with the perfect gem then you shouldn't bother about the legendary and ultimate gems.

Did you just read what u wrote mega shiny legendaries are for experienced players...what experience do u need to caught a shiny legend and get money to evolve it lol. Only thing you have to do is grind days to make money and wish someone buys one of your shiny for quick money. You just don't want other players to get mega shiny easier than how you had it reason why you were talking about refunding if this went through, so don't be a kill joy and give your real reason of opposing this which is technically a lost in value to current mega shinies. Mega shiny legends will still be rare and hard to acquire if it drops to a billion since majority of players still don't even have that much. 
*To re-compensate they can give current owners of mega shiny that require the gem one or two gems to offset their lost if price gets adjusted*
p.s. perfect gem 100mil...leg gem 2bil "So ,  if you don't have problem with the perfect gem then you shouldn't bother about the legendary and ultimate gems." don't make sense one is acquirable in decent time the other is ridiculous especially with the increase in mega pokemon to get 2bil to get those in shiny form. Also if you can get it in 20 days other ppl can? So we suppose to make 100mil a day out of just battling gym leader and other npc since we all saving up for that pricey gem the market is going to be slow with ppl barely buying anything. Perfect reason to not change the price.

Look at your first sentence.
So you mean catching a shiny-legend and getting money requires no skills lol tell the name of at least one newbie who has caught a shiny-legend till now.

I don't have any problems if cef reduces price of gem to any other price and we get our money money back we are just concerned because if mega-shiny-legendaries are considered so op then they should be just as difficult to get and getting 100 mil should be no tough job since i got 400 mil in a single day , it is way too easy you just require some simple techniques.

And btw you cannot expect cef to change the entire gem system because of some people who are too lazy to get the money.

Anyways the ultimate decision is cef's and once he had said that he feels the prices are perfect so no use arguing about this issue anymore.
Out of top rank 30 pages of players only one person had a billion in gold and not even close to 2 billion so u must be real experienced if 30 page of players only one had your type of money lol*unless this game don't update ppl earnings but just update mines since it's correct. Further searching and not even 10 ppl had above a billion. If you take experienced as something u can learn in 1min by reading something then yes ur experienced in catching shiny. For money well your experienced for raking in 400mil in a day lol mind blowing...what your in game name so I can see that cash prolly have a trillion by nowDodgy.
[Image: Arcanine.full.51846.jpg]
#14
Name is Atharva Sawant and i usually spend all the money i get and i have mega'ed a shiny and lent my friend 320 mil , he is spaghetti313 in-game , you may verify if i am lying.
i got 250 mil right now so before spending all that money i was a billionaire.
Though i don't understand why you are discussing my profile lol.
#15
if the price gets lower as u guys are expecting me and other top ranks will have all msls in just few days Big Grin


so all low ranks might permanently remain low ranks Big Grin

and i hope u guys don't want that to happen
#16
(2015-08-23, 03:18 PM)mailmeharry2008 Wrote: if the price gets lower as u guys are expecting me and other top ranks will have all msls in just few days Big Grin

Exactly what i meant , if game gets easier then game = no fun. Big Grin
#17
game is already super easy Big Grin

making it more easy means its just a pvp game, and all pve is killed

though with new easy huntin system and daily reward system, pve is already killed half
#18
game shud be more hard not easy u know i collect 100 mil in 2 weeks thts the fun of collecting the hard works we do for its fruit it looks gud btw if nt hard waork easy to get fruit btw boring
[Image: 1685761.jpg]
#19
(2015-08-23, 03:24 PM)pratham Wrote: game shud be more hard not easy u know i collect 100 mil in 2 weeks thts the fun of collecting the hard works we do for its fruit it looks gud btw if nt hard waork easy to get fruit btw boring

True, but how hard shall it be? There can be events where the gems prices are reduced etc
[Image: 2i2mft.jpg]
What A Drag...
#20
(2015-08-23, 03:14 PM)Atharvaa898 Wrote: Name is Atharva Sawant and i usually spend all the money i get and i have mega'ed a shiny and lent my friend 320 mil , he is spaghetti313 in-game , you may verify if i am lying.
i got 250 mil right now so before spending all that money i was a billionaire.
Though i don't understand why you are discussing my prof
Your claiming that you make 200mil regular and on a good day you make 400mil so had to verify. You have one msl and by the way your talking I would think u would have more than one. Also you spend your money (200m a day) on idk what since pokebox don't represent that, must be giving it away. Also lending 320mil not going to say u didn't since u made more than that today Angel. To end this you have 250mil atm with lent money coming to 570mil and you use to be a billionaire if cash was so easy to make you should never drop below a mil since your not a lazy player and experience with making cash.

(2015-08-23, 03:18 PM)mailmeharry2008 Wrote: if the price gets lower as u guys are expecting me and other top ranks will have all msls in just few days Big Grin


so all low ranks might permanently remain low ranks Big Grin

and i hope u guys don't want that to happen

Don't see a msl in your name so msl not making you number one.
[Image: Arcanine.full.51846.jpg]
#21
Lol when did i say i earn 200 mil everyday , harry earns the highest i.e 100 mil a day , i just got lucky that day and got a few buyers for my shinies.
#22
(2015-08-23, 03:21 PM)mailmeharry2008 Wrote: game is already super easy Big Grin

making it more easy means its just a pvp game, and all pve is killed

though with new easy huntin system and daily reward system, pve is already killed half

not everyone cares about rank Big Grin some people like to have good pokemon that's all
[Image: 2i2mft.jpg]
What A Drag...
#23
Game should be hard but for a pokemon catching battling game money is what makes the game hard? Meowth should be OP then tossing away money.It should be ingame npc or catching good pokes that makes it hard when it come to pve plus it's not super easy if your trying to catch good nature iv pokes. Well don't worry since someone already said they don't want to pay back current owners 2bil since there will be backlash so I won't comment on this till Cef or someone in charge makes a reply unless someone says something ridiculous.
[Image: Arcanine.full.51846.jpg]
#24
(2015-08-23, 03:42 PM)Atharvaa898 Wrote: Lol when did i say i earn 200 mil everyday , harry earns the highest i.e 100 mil a day , i just got lucky that day and got a few buyers for my shinies.

You said it should take anyone 20 days to get the gem since u did it, now your saying harry makes the most in a day which is 100mil. Guess u were trying to be the highest also 100mil x 20(days)=2bil. I'm done.
[Image: Arcanine.full.51846.jpg]
#25
(2015-08-23, 03:48 PM)mailmeharry2008 Wrote:
(2015-08-23, 03:33 PM)currychicken Wrote:
(2015-08-23, 03:14 PM)Atharvaa898 Wrote: Name is Atharva Sawant and i usually spend all the money i get and i have mega'ed a shiny and lent my friend 320 mil , he is spaghetti313 in-game , you may verify if i am lying.
i got 250 mil right now so before spending all that money i was a billionaire.
Though i don't understand why you are discussing my prof
Your claiming that you make 200mil regular and on a good day you make 400mil so had to verify. You have one msl and by the way your talking I would think u would have more than one. Also you spend your money (200m a day) on idk what since pokebox don't represent that, must be giving it away. Also lending 320mil not going to say u didn't since u made more than that today Angel. To end this you have 250mil atm with lent money coming to 570mil and you use to be a billionaire if cash was so easy to make you should never drop below a mil since your not a lazy player and experience with making cash.

(2015-08-23, 03:18 PM)mailmeharry2008 Wrote: if the price gets lower as u guys are expecting me and other top ranks will have all msls in just few days Big Grin


so all low ranks might permanently remain low ranks Big Grin

and i hope u guys don't want that to happen

Don't see a msl in your name so msl not making you number one.

dps makes us rank 1 and msl has highest dps equivalent to 8 megas Big Grin now use brains and think abt that Big Grin
i just don't have msls as i don't like their stats as per their prices, stats are too low for prices. If they raise their stats to make last gym too easy then i wud have be the first person to acquire all msls Big Grin

(2015-08-23, 03:42 PM)Darkvoid Wrote:
(2015-08-23, 03:21 PM)mailmeharry2008 Wrote: game is already super easy Big Grin

making it more easy means its just a pvp game, and all pve is killed

though with new easy huntin system and daily reward system, pve is already killed half

not everyone cares about rank Big Grin some people like to have good pokemon that's all

ranks denotes the hard work, if u don't do hard work u don't deserve good pkmns Big Grin

"i just don't have msls as i don't like their stats as per their prices, stats are too low for prices."-Thanks for your vote for suggestion lol
[Image: Arcanine.full.51846.jpg]
#26
I said i don't earn 100 mil daily but i earned 2b in 20 days and that includes selling pokemon mostly -_-
#27
(2015-08-23, 03:59 PM)mailmeharry2008 Wrote:
(2015-08-23, 03:56 PM)currychicken Wrote:
(2015-08-23, 03:48 PM)mailmeharry2008 Wrote:
(2015-08-23, 03:33 PM)currychicken Wrote:
(2015-08-23, 03:14 PM)Atharvaa898 Wrote: Name is Atharva Sawant and i usually spend all the money i get and i have mega'ed a shiny and lent my friend 320 mil , he is spaghetti313 in-game , you may verify if i am lying.
i got 250 mil right now so before spending all that money i was a billionaire.
Though i don't understand why you are discussing my prof
Your claiming that you make 200mil regular and on a good day you make 400mil so had to verify. You have one msl and by the way your talking I would think u would have more than one. Also you spend your money (200m a day) on idk what since pokebox don't represent that, must be giving it away. Also lending 320mil not going to say u didn't since u made more than that today Angel. To end this you have 250mil atm with lent money coming to 570mil and you use to be a billionaire if cash was so easy to make you should never drop below a mil since your not a lazy player and experience with making cash.

(2015-08-23, 03:18 PM)mailmeharry2008 Wrote: if the price gets lower as u guys are expecting me and other top ranks will have all msls in just few days Big Grin


so all low ranks might permanently remain low ranks Big Grin

and i hope u guys don't want that to happen

Don't see a msl in your name so msl not making you number one.

dps makes us rank 1 and msl has highest dps equivalent to 8 megas Big Grin now use brains and think abt that Big Grin
i just don't have msls as i don't like their stats as per their prices, stats are too low for prices. If they raise their stats to make last gym too easy then i wud have be the first person to acquire all msls Big Grin

(2015-08-23, 03:42 PM)Darkvoid Wrote:
(2015-08-23, 03:21 PM)mailmeharry2008 Wrote: game is already super easy Big Grin

making it more easy means its just a pvp game, and all pve is killed

though with new easy huntin system and daily reward system, pve is already killed half

not everyone cares about rank Big Grin some people like to have good pokemon that's all

ranks denotes the hard work, if u don't do hard work u don't deserve good pkmns Big Grin

"i just don't have msls as i don't like their stats as per their prices, stats are too low for prices."-Thanks for your vote for suggestion lol

why people choose their own benefit sentence, and even change the meaning of other people for their own benefit.
It simply means that increase the price of gem even further but at least make stats of msls higher alongside Big Grin

If stats of certain shiny legend go any higher then it would be ridiculous to even have them in the game or at least battle non shiny with them. You would just have a msl competition. So best option is to lower the price to acquire them.
[Image: Arcanine.full.51846.jpg]
#28
(2015-08-23, 04:05 PM)mailmeharry2008 Wrote: no best option is let it be what it is actually Big Grin

After what u said about price that statement isUndecided but whatever.
[Image: Arcanine.full.51846.jpg]
#29
(2015-08-23, 04:13 PM)mailmeharry2008 Wrote:
(2015-08-23, 04:08 PM)currychicken Wrote:
(2015-08-23, 04:05 PM)mailmeharry2008 Wrote: no best option is let it be what it is actually Big Grin

After what u said about price that statement isUndecided but whatever.

there is nothing wrong in my statement Tongue
stats needs increase to encourage people like me to go for them or i will feel lazy to acquire them for the following facts:=

1. mega = 12 dps, ml- 24, ms = 48 and msl = 96
2. prices = 25m, 100m, 500m and 2b
3. stats = i guess 10 percent boosts to each form

so best option for rankers is to acquire lower ones as we get more dps in less money say 8 megas can be done in just 200 mills so why shud we spend 2b for the same dps that we can get in 200 mills......

so if either dps raises or stats raises to make last gym too easy for us will attract us to do hardest work to acquire them on priority...

Thanks hope u understand my statement now Big Grin

MSls are highest things in game and nothing will replace them ever so price wise they still fit.....
K understandable for ranking system, at least you make sense and don't contradict earlier statements.
[Image: Arcanine.full.51846.jpg]
#30
(2015-08-23, 03:48 PM)mailmeharry2008 Wrote:
(2015-08-23, 03:33 PM)currychicken Wrote:
(2015-08-23, 03:14 PM)Atharvaa898 Wrote: Name is Atharva Sawant and i usually spend all the money i get and i have mega'ed a shiny and lent my friend 320 mil , he is spaghetti313 in-game , you may verify if i am lying.
i got 250 mil right now so before spending all that money i was a billionaire.
Though i don't understand why you are discussing my prof
Your claiming that you make 200mil regular and on a good day you make 400mil so had to verify. You have one msl and by the way your talking I would think u would have more than one. Also you spend your money (200m a day) on idk what since pokebox don't represent that, must be giving it away. Also lending 320mil not going to say u didn't since u made more than that today Angel. To end this you have 250mil atm with lent money coming to 570mil and you use to be a billionaire if cash was so easy to make you should never drop below a mil since your not a lazy player and experience with making cash.

(2015-08-23, 03:18 PM)mailmeharry2008 Wrote: if the price gets lower as u guys are expecting me and other top ranks will have all msls in just few days Big Grin


so all low ranks might permanently remain low ranks Big Grin

and i hope u guys don't want that to happen

Don't see a msl in your name so msl not making you number one.

dps makes us rank 1 and msl has highest dps equivalent to 8 megas Big Grin now use brains and think abt that Big Grin
i just don't have msls as i don't like their stats as per their prices, stats are too low for prices. If they raise their stats to make last gym too easy then i wud have be the first person to acquire all msls Big Grin

(2015-08-23, 03:42 PM)Darkvoid Wrote:
(2015-08-23, 03:21 PM)mailmeharry2008 Wrote: game is already super easy Big Grin

making it more easy means its just a pvp game, and all pve is killed

though with new easy huntin system and daily reward system, pve is already killed half

not everyone cares about rank Big Grin some people like to have good pokemon that's all

ranks denotes the hard work, if u don't do hard work u don't deserve good pkmns Big Grin

I don't really care about the gem thing as much as this post. HARD WORK denotes HARD WORK and nothing else. Rank doesn't have anything to do with getting good pokes. Most or all of the good pvpers aren't even in the top 10 anymore and you are rank 1 with more than 50% of trash megas. So you can't go around saying such nonsense about hard work.
[Image: tyranitar_in_dragon_form_by_black_wing24-d47c29u.jpg]

Beat me? Ha, when Tyranitars fly...

~ch17175

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